Sabretoothe – christian rock band from Rhyl (c2005), feat; Ritchie Shemilt (voc,gtr), Kris Owen (bass) (also Dressed Naked), Joe Own (gtr), Matt Jones (drms) (also Dressed Naked, Modest Ego). Orig feat; Colin Jones (gtr) (ex Feedback, Dressed Naked), Simon Parry (gtr) (ex Dressed Naked, Modest Ego)
Safety In Numbers – nu-punk Denbigh / Ruthin band (formed Jan06), feat; Nathan Sandbrook (gtr), Tom Heron (voc,gtr), Aaron Canter (bass), Tom Hassall (drms). Orig bassist Ben quit Apr06, band fizzled out by end of 2009. (website)
Sain Records – folk orientated Welsh language record label formed in Cardiff in 1969 by Dafydd Iwan and Huw Jones. The company moved to Caernarfon in the early 70s aand opened a studio in Llandwrog in 1975. Sain has/had sub-labels of which, Crai is/was its more ‘indie’ arm and Rasal was aimed at new bands.
St Pierre Snake Invasion – dirty indie-punk project (c2009) by Damien Sayell of Rhyl (ex Homespun) and Carl Foulkes-Jones, now based in Bristol. Carl left and moved back to North Wales 2012. Rel ‘Flesh’ EP (9.7.11), ‘Everyone’s Entitled To My Opinion’ EP (30.4.13), followed by LP ‘A Hundred Years A Day’ (31.10.15) (website)
Sake – project by North Wales based Chloe Leavers who rel a 4 track EP in 2014 (soundcloud)
Salem – Tregele based 4-pc band, feat; Anthony Ross (gtr), Martin Pritchard (voc) (later Anti-Life Theory), Rich Moore (bass), Joel Youngs (drms). More info req’d.
Sanctuary – North Wales based band of the late 1980’s, invited to play at a wedding for The Henchmen (Hell’s Angels) with 4Q, performing on the flat toilet roof at the back the Pen-y-bont pub, Abergele & were forced to play for the entire day.
The Sandman – Gwyn Nicholas was the DJ behind the 1st proper rave night at Bentleys (Towyn) & Broadway Boulevard (Llandudno) (c1991/2). Might have been ‘Utopia’ – bit of cheesy name in retrospect! Last heard of buying a stack of pro-audio gear for DJing – sampler, mixer, PC (286/386?) running Cakewalk, Simon Bettino‘s Juno, & some other stuff. He’d been writing his own dance music & was planning on moving to London with all his gear. He bought Robin Hemuss’ effects rack off him in ’95. Robin saw him a few months later in CBay, said he’d moved to London & was having a great laugh. Robin met Gwyn through Dave Watkins of Something Transparent as they were both in the same year at Rydal School, Colwyn Bay.
Sansara – 4-pc grunge infl band from Colwyn Bay, feat; James Bevan (bass), Chris Heath (ex Aneurysm, ex Dead Hedgehog) (drms), Chris Walker (ex Dead Hedgehog, later Secret Shows) (gtr,voc), Chris Leach (ex Aneurysm) (voc,gtr). Formed late Jul01. Played the Conwy Fest with Dive & Keaf, & at Swallow Falls, Betws-y-coed with Keaf, played a MASE gig 22.10.01. Changed name to Red Shift Sep02 (website)
Sapphires – Colwyn Bay band of late 60s, feat; Lemmy (ex DeeJays, later Hawkwind, Motorhead). Lemmy didn’t last long as he couldn’t stand the guitarist (who may have been Andre). More info req’d
Sarah’s Room – Compilation cassette. In 1980, Sarah temporarily left Bangor to tour Australia and New Zealand for a few months, leaving her room at 32 College Road vacant. Never ones to miss an opportunity, her housemates seized the chance to turn the space into a temporary recording studio, with John Cratchley (of Third Spain and resident of the room directly above Sarah’s) installing all manner of microphones and recording paraphernalia in the abandoned room. For several weeks, every visiting musician was dragged into the room and encouraged to ‘perform’. The results of this project eventually saw the light of day on a cassette on the Black Vinyl Tapes label appropriately titled ‘Sarah’s Room’.
Satan – Columnist in Crud fanzine & early 4Q publicist. Real name, Stephen Allen Jones of Deganwy (although not the Steve Allan Jones associated with the Alarm). He worked with Neil Crud as an attendant at The Premier Amusement Arcade in Colwyn Bay in 1987. Although attributed with many writings in Crud and later online, Satan was used as a pseudonym for Neil to promote his own work. The two recently met up in 2009 not been in contact since 1989. Satan is now in the world of finance.
Scabbz – Betws-y-Coed punk band of mid90s, feat; Rich Eardley (voc) (later Melys, Main Line Power Squadron, Peakz), Alun (bass), Dylan (drms), Scott (gtr), Ned (gtr). Rel 3-track single Electric Chair (on Ofn 1994).
The Scargills – legendary punk band from Old Colwyn (c1985), feat; Kenny Walker (voc), Craig Davies (gtr) (later Sticklebacks). Trevor Ackley (ex-The Exits) (gtr,voc), Gaz Williams (bass), Tony (tot) Willmore (keys). Sent tape to John Peel. Later morphed into band below…
Trish Trash & The Scargills – blues punk busking trio (c1987). Trish Trash (gtr,voc) (later Sticklebacks), Trevor Ackley (gtr,voc), Craig Davies (cardboard boxes,teapot). Performed a busking tour of Colwyn Bay on general election day 11.6.87, starting off at the Friendship Club polling station, moved on from the back of Sainsburys to the front, finishing on Station Rd, opposite the Premier Amusement Arcade. Craig says, ‘Edi Filmstar was laughing at us. We went to the Bee Hotel in Rhyl with 4Q, but Neil Crud wouldn’t let us play, so I poured a pint over his head, he shouted “1234” down the mike and off they went again, brill.’ They also played the Imperial Hotel’s Buskers Ball in Colwyn Bay and 6 people got up and left, and the plug was pulled when Russell got up to sing.
The Scene – Wrexham indie band (c2010), feat; Anthony Turner (drms), Martin Ford (bass), Gareth Holmes (gtr), Craig Spencer Griffiths (voc), Jez Stokes (keys) (website)
Science – London based alternative weird indie band (c2006) feat; Rebecca Dien-Johns & Dewi Rhys Griffiths (ex Toys in the Attic) both originate from Penmaenmawr. Also Stuart Maxwell (gtr). Band also feat Matt Jones (keys) (former member of Ultrasound) & Scott Vining (drms). Involved with Shifty Disco recs (Website).
The Score – dance project from Blaenau Ffestiniog based Dr Gez (1996), rel 2 or 3 mixes of Bionic Man on CDr, with samples from the 1970s TV series Six Million Dollar Man. (see The Forge, Sylem)
Andy Scott – lead guitarist with The Sweet (born 30.6.49) & brought up in Wrexham – in 1977 the band’s appearance on Top Of The Pops coincided with one of Wrexham FC’s famous FA Cup runs, & Andy played with a giant red & white rosette on his jacket, which I suppose is an improvement on silver lame hot pants & half an inch of make up! He started playing in local bands in the early 60s like Rasjaks, 3Ds, Guitars Incorporated, Missing Links, Saints, Silverstones and Four Links.
Scott Bakers – band from Rhyl (c2005) almost a continuation of Kneejerk, feat; Andrew Treadear (voc), Oliver Gill (gtr), Neil (gtr). See also Tequila Mockingbird
Scotts – Nightclub in Wrexham, which offered a ‘touch of class’ according to the signs outside it. Closed in 2009 and in 2014 plans were approved to build student flats and ground-floor retail space on the site at Brook Street.
Scouse Git – See Hammond, Paul
Scramble Joe – Gwespyr based band, formed Oct02, feat; Carl Hogan (voc,bass) (ex Carl Hogan, Utopia, Lucid), Gavin Lawton (gtr) (ex Carbonari, Dred, Pain Filtered Farm, Lucid, Torn Asunder, later Maligned), Gary Hubble Roberts (drms) (ex Alien Matter, Hub, Fuzzy Duck, Global Parasite) joined Jan03 replacing Cai Brockley (later of B-Sides) (website). Band split Jun03. Reformed Oct03 with Tom Ball (drms). (See also Seattle Chaser)
Scrap Book – 93 page book of cuttings collected by Neil Crud during the mid 1980’s, forming the basis on which the Crud fanzines would be styled on. Scrap Book was available in its entirety on the CDr version of this website (c2003) before it got too huge.
Scratch – pre-1980 Rhyl band feat; Mogga (later of Harvest Moon, Swan, Charlie, Badger Bell). More info req’d.
Scratch – old school punk band from Old Colwyn (formed Jun02) feat; Matt Pipkin (gtr) (ex Suicidal Mushrooms, Floater’s Revenge & Infest), Ben Higgenson (voc), Philip Milton (voc) (later Juggling Grenades), Jonny Williams (bass), Chris Hume (drms). Sadly, both Jonny and Matt have since died.
Scratch – (real name Mark Downing, from Mostyn) former vocalist with Mercenary Skank (mid 80s). Worked at Kavern Recs in Rhyl. Played in a band before M.Skank (name?). Last heard to be restoring antique furniture in Devon.
Screaming Citizens – band (c2005), involved with MASE. More info req’d
Screamin’ Demons – Rhyl band (c1980) incl; Dave Sharp who was soon to join Seventeen, The Alarm. This was going to be Dave’s band just before the Alarm. The plan was to be a sort of skiffle band with Nigel Twist on washboard, & to enable this to occur, Dave “borrowed” Mike Peters’ acoustic guitar. Dave then “customised” the instrument with a pickup & stickers. (Mike actually played this guitar in the Vic in Prestatyn during the Alarm 20th Anniversary coach tour 9.6.01).
Screaming Tap Syndrome – Grunge/Goth band from Colwyn Bay (c2001), feat. Kirk Lovell (voc,gtr), Dominic Tanner (voc,bass) (Die Kast Messiah, Klaus Kinski), Danny Lovell (Kirk’s brother) (drms) (from NW band Coma). Infl inc. Nirvana, Soundgarden, Slayer, Pantera, Morcheeba.
Screaming Witches – Rhyl/Prestatyn grunge band (changed name Jan12 from Ugly Harmonies), feat; Mikey Pennington (voc), Robert Goodier (gtr), Richard Williams (bass) (quit Nov12), Sean Finnigan (drms) (website)
Screeem – DJ Nights held at Broadway in Llandudno & also an online clubbing forum (run by Daz) designed to provide a focal point for all night club, bar and DJ’s/producers in the area thus allowing clubbers to have access to all the latest news within the scene. Now has an added Alternative Scene forum. (website)
Seagull Kinevil – Amlwch band, orig called Valleum until the name change in 2010. Feat; Marcus Peachey (voc,gtr) (later Wasted), Andy Culshaw (bass), Alun Beans (voc,gtr) (also Bootnic, later The Glitches), Mike McMahon (drms) (ex-Vaffan Coulo, later Heldinky) (left 2010). Rel LP ‘From Insanity To Beyond’ (2010) (their 4th, but 1st under this name). Announced in Jul12 they had split due to drummer problems. Members are also in Cowbois Celtaidd (website)
Seattle – project for the summer of 2003 while Scramble Joe were having a break. Feat; Carl Hogan (voc,bass), Gavin Lawton (gtr) (later Maligned, Set The Fuse), Tim Hughes (gtr), Chris Walker (drms). Gigs in the Manchester area. Split Oct03 due to Scramble Joe reforming.
Seazoo – post-teddycore band from Wrexham (formed Apr13), feat; Ben Trow (gtr,voc), Mike Smith (bass) (both also of Mowbird), Llinos Griffiths (keys,voc), Dan West (gtr), Steffan Owens (drms). Rel EP ‘Ken’ (12.04.13), followed by Dog Hotel single (21.10.13) and then Panda Pains (Jan15) which propelled them onto 6music airplay and a session for Marc Riley, next EP ‘Car Deborah’ (Jun15). (info)
Sion Sebon – Singer/guitarist (b.1964) with Welsh punk pioneers Yr Anhrefn. Real name Sion Thomas, of Powys, relocated to Bangor with brother Rhys in early 80s. Played same role in Mangre. Several attempts to get Sion back onstage and playing have so far (2015) failed.
Secateurs – Deeside indie band (formed 2011), feat; Jay Ratcliffe (voc,gtr), Mark Taylor (bass), Gareth Jones (drms). Debut gig at Mcleans in Queensferry (08.03.12). Rel dbl A-side single, Unlucky Charm/Let’s Go Down (18.06.12), followed by She Lost Her Mind (01.02.14). 3rd single Howl At The Moon (07.06.14). ‘Streak EP’ (17.04.15). Members used to be in Zebedee Sez, Stokoz To Moscow, The Livewires, The Escape, We Shiver, and Silver/Back/Club (website)
Seclusion – Psychedelic/Pink Floyd infl band who grew up together in Chester & started recording in 1993. Line-up; Andy (gtr), Howard (drms), Martin (gtr), Pete (bass). Their website at the time was worth a visit for the Java Applet on the line-up page alone.
Second Thoughts – Caernarfon band formed in early 80s by Mark Snape (voc,keys) & also feat; R Griffiths (keys); D Andrews (gtr). Rel single Wrapped (M+R Recs 1986 Spirit Studios, Manchester), orig rec at Ystafell Wirion, Ynys Mon in 1984/5, is a genuine pop classic, and could only come from a young Lancastrian (Mark moved from Leigh, Greater Manchester to Waunfawr at age 9 or 10) coming to terms with his Celtic self, by way of the Beach Boys. It may be the case that The Jesus and Mary Chain’s Never Understand owes a little to it, as Mark maintains that Blanco Y Negro [JAMCs label] had ripped him off after coming up to Bangor for a listen. They toured France in the late ’80s, and may have had some chart success there.
Secretaire – Manchester based guitar band (c2011), feat North Wales exiles, Joe Booker (drms) (also Gintis, Telefair), Carl O’Neill (gtr) (ex Der Bomber) and Jez Budd (bass). Don’t gig often but when they do, they like to wear wrestling masks onstage! Rel single Prick On A Racetrack (06.08.13) (bandcamp)
Secret Crowds – (c2016) orig name for Rhyl band Small Town Heroes
Secret Shows – Denbigh indie band (formed May12), feat; Chris Walker (voc,gtr) (ex Dead Hedgehog, Samsara, Red Shift), Cat Crossley (bass,voc) (ex Perfectly Flawed), Dafydd Cartwright (drms) (DXP, ex Ether, Azbos). After a tumultuous 3 years of jamming and local gigging, Chris and Daf decided it was time to turn their instrumental side project, Audiogasm, into something real, accessible and most importantly, full time. Bassist Cat joined the band for a jam and one minor motor-cycle accident later it was obvious the trio was complete. Plenty of gigs played (debut at Oakfest, Betws-y-Coed 12.10.12) and rel ‘Extended Play Pt.1 EP’ (website)
Secrets of Sound – Record label set up by Neil Crud in 1992 to release the debut Sons of Selina 7″ single Anxiety, & an eponymous compilation EP. Label was resurrected to release an EP by Pocket Venus Through Your Day (Jul02), & the follow up Tell Me Why (Dec02) being the 5th rel. A 6th and probably final release came in Nov12 with Braxton Hicks, after which Crud launched link2wales records
Seedy / DC – Wrexham based AC/DC tribute band formed Autumn 2001, feat; Alan Moore (voc) (ex AB/CD), Paul “PJ” Davies (gtr), Gary Lee (gtr), Andy Whitfield (bass) and Rob Herriott (drms) (aka Steven Shaw, ex Premonition, Hand Relief). Orig feat Ali Todd on voc (now of Ali Todd & Lurker).
See Emily Play – Ruthin based band, supported Anhrefn at Colwyn Bay, Rydal school open air gig 1986, became Emily. More info req’d.
Y Sefydliad – (1980-84). Band feat; Cedwyn Aled (voc), Philip Lewis (gtr), Robin Huws (bass), Sion Llew (drms), Dewi Gwyn (gtr) (concurrently in Anhrefn). Sion was replaced on drums in 1983 by Rhys Roberts. 1st demo, a live rec Sefydliad 4 Cân rec in 1983, followed by a single later in the year rec at Stiwdio’r Bwthyn.
Y Selar – Welsh language music magazine (launched 15.11.04), edited by Owain Morgan-Jones and published by Rasal, and available free through record shops
Seize The Day – Rhos-on-Sea hardcore band (2004), formed by ex-members of Out Of Use. Inc, Jamie Wilson (ex Orgasmic Funkers, Shaftsbury Ave, later Minus Nine Lives), Anton (drms) (later of Instant Agony, Stuntface, Minus Nine Lives). Rel 13 track LP on Pigtown Recs (Mar05) of which the track Ham ‘n’ Cheese rec’d airplay on Adam Walton’s BBC Radio Wales Show
Sen Segur – band from Pen Rhydd, feat; Benjamin Ellis. Sior Amor. Dafydd Evans. Gethin Davies. Rel ‘Pen Rhydd EP’ (08.05.11), and LP ‘Films’ (07.05.15) (bandcamp)
Sentient – Rhyl based (1997) dark acid trance (their description) fronted by Paul Hammond, who harnessed the programming skills of Mark o’Grady (Jurassic Punk) & Jim Motley. A stopgap between GMX Stuns & the Sex Terrestrials. Relationships between Paul & Jim deteriorated amongst a haze of drink & drugs, but lasted long enough to record some classic tracks. Backing vocals were provided by Aubyn Dyke (ex-PSST) & 16 year-old Mandy Snowdon. Tracks such as Millennium Chaos Abyss, Acid Asylum received a lot of airplay on Hammond’s Xsentrik Selection radio show & also remixed a Mike Peters track which was often played during the warm ups to his live shows (O’Grady & Motley set up a production company & remixed Mike Peters’ LP Rise). A demo, Through This Black Hole, feat an excellent reworking of The Clash’s Know Your Rights, & the guitar of Sons of Selina‘s Bonehead.
Septic Maggots – Chester punk band (late 70s) feat; Sean O’Halloran (later of Bastoids, Rev Rev). More info req’d.
Septic Paradox – fast punk band (2003), & off-shoot of Sodzlaw, feat; Sam Thomas (gtr) (also Sodslaw), Adam Roberts (gtr), Dan Mattok (drms) (also Sodzlaw), Shaun Cunningham (bass). Ben Jackson (of Fudged) (drms) at some point.
Serain – Rhyl band (c1997) ? feat; Alun (Tan Lan) Evansh (bass) (ex Boff Frank Boff & It Might Be, now Y Niwl), Scott Jones (drms) (ex Skabbz, Gareth Lewis (voc), Ned (gtr). Dylan was orig drummer. Rel a 4 track CD recorded in the town ‘Geneth heb Enw‘ (Girl Without A Name) (Grupo 001). Acoustic rock, very much like Travis etc. Gareth has had some solo stuff released, one CD in New Zealand.
Sergeant Peppers – Nightclub in Wrexham that was classed as one of the town’s most successful venues during the 1980s. It has reopened under various guises over the years, but after remaining empty for a long time it looks set (2014) to be re-developed into a restaurant and luxury flats.
A Series of One – punk fanzine from Holywell (1980-82?) edited by Doggy (ex-Grids), ran for at least 3 issues – in order to get an interview with USA punks Black Flag, Doggy had to be their roadie for a gig in Leeds.
Serotone – electronica-trance artist from Caernarfon (real name Endaf Roberts ex Kentucky AFC) (c2008-11) (website)
Serpents – supergroup feat; Dave Battersby (The Land Of Nod), Laurence Connett (Flowerhead), Mike Cross (Longstone), Kev Fox (90° South), Gabrielle Gane (New Dodos, Babel), Laurie Gane (New Dodos), Nicholas Gane, Catalina Guirado (model, “celebrity”), Maeyc Hewitt (Ectogram, Nixon & Jarvis), Alan Holmes (Ectogram, Parking Non-Stop), Gary Husband (Melys), Carys Jones (ex-Melys), John Lawrence (Infinity Chimps, ex-Gorky’s), Julie McGrail, Ann Matthews (Ectogram), Dafydd Morgan (Stylus), Henry Priestman (Christians, ex-Yachts), Dafydd Rhys (ex-Maffia Mr Huws), Gruff Rhys (Super Furry Animals), Rheinallt H. Rowlands, Jon Savage (writer), Will Sergeant (Echo & The Bunnymen, Glide), Paul Simpson (Skyray, ex-Wild Swans, Teardrop Explodes), Zoë Skoulding (Parking Non-Stop), Alan Slin (ex-Igam Ogam, Sgidia Newydd), Dickie Straker, Ant Walker (The Land Of Nod), Mike Ward (Longstone), David Wrench, Kevin Wright (Flowerhead), Merlin Zol, Dyfrig Evans (Topper), Iwan Evans (Topper), Peter Richardson (Gorky’s Zygotic Mynci, ex-Topper), Mick Derrick (Prolapse), Jonathan Kerry (Freed Unit), Matt Kerry (Freed Unit), Rachel Hattersley, Richard Amp (A.M.P.), Karine Charff (A.M.P.), Windy Weber (Windy & Carl), Carl (Windy & Carl), Dewi Evans (Rheinallt H Rowlands, Parking Non-Stop), Gwyn Jones (ex- Maffia Mr Huws, Anhrefn), Simon Close, Marty X. Initiated by Paul Simpson of Skyray and Alan Holmes of Ectogram, with the encouragement of Ochre Records supremo Talbot and the mysterious Merlin Zol, they get together every so often for a wild weekend of recording up in the hills and have rel LP “You Have Just Been Poisoned By The Serpents” and a single “No Mask No Cloak Dim Gobaith”, both on the Ochre label, as well as several comp appearances. They have played live only 3 times to date, in Gloucester, Pentraeth and Bangor. There exists a large archive of unreleased material which will one day see the light of day.
Set The Fuse – alt-prog band from Bodelwyddan (c2013), feat; Joe Storer (voc,gtr), Gavin Lawton (bass) (who’s been in more bands than are featured on this site!), and Daniel Howard (drms) (website)
Seventeen – Prequel of The Alarm, (see also The Toilets). Released one single Don’t Let Go / Bank Holiday Weekend (on Vendetta recs) & publicised themselves by getting arrested for changing the lettering on the local cinema hoarding to advertise a gig. Played countless gigs across the UK from opening with Pop Generation at the Bee Hotel in Rhyl on Saturday 27th May 1978 until they played their last song which was either 68 Guns or Breakdown by The Buzzcocks in Jan81, at Herne Bay they announced to a disinterested audience they were changing their name to Alarm Alarm. Vinyl Japan rel an LP of demo recordings in 2002. (more)
Sex Hands – Llanfairfechan / Manchester crazed-trash band, feat; Alex, Dylan, Edwin and Joe (website)
Sex Terrestrials – Name given to a project feat two ex-Psychosexual Sex Terrestrials – Paul Hammond & Dean Roberts, although the sequenced trance sound was nothing like their orig work. Sentient track Devils Dance was aired on Shore FM‘s Xsentrik Selection (Apr 98) but attributed to the Sex Terrestrials.
Sgidia Newydd – Band from Bangor area (c1983), feat; Brian Roberts (bass,sax), Chris (violin), Steve Jones (voc,gtr), Alan Slin (keys), Gorwel Owen (keys), Anton Hughes (drms). Had track Esgyn Heb feat on local comp tape ‘Just When You Thought We Were Dead’
Sgt Fury – Colwyn Bay band (1980), prev called Poison Dwarf. Feat; Nick Ffoulkes (gtr), Mike Lloyd (bass), Steve Finnigan (drms), Snozz [Tony Hughes] (voc). Played various gigs & split late 82-83.
Sgyrff – Bethesda based outfit (pre-1992). More info req’d.
Shadowy Proprietor – alter ego of Johnny R. Rel LP ‘Met The…’ on Ants in Their Pants Recs (Sep05)
Shaftsbury Ave – Rhos-on-Sea band (early 90s), feat; Jamie Wilson (gtr) (ex Auntie Flo’s Fadge, Orgasmic Funkers, Out of Use, Seize The Day), Reg Irwin (bass) (ex Auntie Flo’s Fadge), Phill Taylor (drms) (ex Orgasmic Funkers, Babakin), Dusty Moonan (voc,gtr) (ex Babakin, Affliction). Described by Moo as “a fucking mess of frustrated ideas amiably accepted and recorded. ‘Banged out’ 2 demo LPs in April/May93 titled ‘Shaftsbury Ave’ & ‘Mumby Gumby.’ Memorable track being ‘Death Summer.’ It was a side project, but did contribute a great deal towards Orgasmic Funkers and Auntie Flo’s Fadge splitting up!”
Shameless Faith – Chirk indie-rock band (formed Jun04), feat; Carl (voc), Oz (gtr), Paul (gtr), Alfie (bass), Rob (drms) (website)
Sha’nol – Mold based band (?) pre-1985?, feat; Rhys Parry (later of Chwys Plysmon). More info req’d.
Shantytown – website set up by Steve Rastin, Dec00 as a fortnightly review site of the Rhyl scene, escaping the shackles that local newspapers keep on their writers. The name Shantytown refers to the label that Rhyl was given in the national press. Site covers local music, CD, video, games reviews & views. Ceased early 02.
Sharp And Black – Much anticipated collaboration between Duncan Black (gtr) (also of Skinflick) and Jack Sharp (voc) (ex 3 Stone Cops). The two have known each other since they were 4. They were in the year below Aled Jones at Ysgol David Hughes, Menai Bridge. Downloads are already available of early jamming sessions. Band should be up and running later in 2005. Jack knows Cian from the Super Furry Animals. Band was originally called Ebony Spear.
Dave Sharp – (b.28.01.59), real name David Kitchingman. Former guitarist with The Alarm, went on to an American based solo career & got together with the Barnstormers 1991. Rec CD, Hard Travellin’ (Sep91). Dave played regularly at Kerrys Irish Bar on Decatur Street in New Orleans. Sunday nights seemed to be the best time to catch him. Dave’s 2nd solo album Downtown America was released in the USA only, but has since been deleted. Appeared as a guest in the identity parade on BBC2’s Never Mind The Buzzcocks (Sep00).
Shatter – Old Colwyn band (c2001) infl by Limp Bizkit, feat; Daniel Pastori (drms) (now of Red Shift)
Simon Shaw – bassist in the Cellophane Boys (Rhyl punk band of 1977). Designed 1st Alarm sleeve – Unsafe Building & went to London in 1979 to study at Camberwell School Of Art & arranged the first London Alarm gig at that college (they called themselves Alarm Alarm that night).
Sherbet Antlers – Llanrwst / Blaenau band feat; Mark Roberts and Paul Jones (both ex Cyrff, Catatonia) and John Griffiths and Kevs Ford (both of Llwybr Llaethog). Debut gig at Clwb Ifor Bach, Cardiff (12.02.04). Mark and Paul went onto form Y Ffyrc. And Mark later formed The Earth
She Said – Prestatyn based rock band formed in the early 90’s & rel a 12″ promo single (pic) at the time. Feat; Mike Davis (gtr,voc) (see Templegate), Rob Maxwell (bass), Joel Dolben (drms) (ex X, Pig, Hobo). Reappeared on the scene in 1998 with a polished album Smaller Than Life & subsequently split up which Joel blames on their manager Bob Kelly after he sent them to Glastonbury in 1998 or 99 and they arrived at the gate to learn that they had never been booked to play. Joel now lives in Queensland, Australia
She Stoops To Conquer – Colwyn Bay based band 1989 (?), feat; Tim Davies (gtr), James, Eamon, they were Rydal schoolboys who supported Orbit at Eirias High, also played at Ysgol Bryn Elian with Jimmy Hill Experience. Now called Crazy Penis & based in Manchester.
Shibumi – Saltney indie band, prev called Jonny Panic.
Shifty – young Colwyn Bay band (2001), feat; Paul (gtr), Martin (voc) who both went onto form Sofa.
Shine Fanzine – Prelude to the Corwen based ‘zine Whip Me & Go Moo Moo, written by Mark Williams (band member of The Rejected, Emily) (see also Lemonade) in the mid to late 1980’s. Mark now writes reviews for the Daily Post newspaper.
Shivering Hills – metal band from Penmaenmawr (formed 2009), feat; Steve Watson-Jones (gtr,voc), Mike Watson-Jones (bass), Levan Jones (gtr) & Richie Dixon (drms) (website)
The Shoemaker – now Caskeys & virtually the only pub in Rhyl in 1982 putting on gigs. Mercenary Skank promoted bands there in the back room as well as having upstairs as a rehearsal den.
Joe Shooman – ex-member (then known as Kerz) of Dogshit on Toast and Vaffan Coulo. Now author of biographies on Trivium, Kasabian and Bruce Dickinson plus the book ‘Whose Space Is It Anyway?’ He says, ‘I’ve done bits and bobs of recording and live sound as an engineer since them days, and played a few gigs as part of Steve Kennedy’s live band in 2005, one of which was in the British Embassy in Berlin.’ (website)
Shoot The Rabbit – Wrexham band (formed in Bangor Uni c2010), feat; David Bullough (voc,gtr), Rhodri Davies (drms), Matt Norton (bass), Adam Taylor (gtr) (facebook)
Shop – shortlived band of late 70s, feat; Neale Parry. They were experimental and would alternate who played what instrument from gig to gig. Once played to a packed pub venue on Anglesey, mainly due to the fact that they stopped for a pint a few miles from where they were due to play and told locals they were the Boomtown Rats who promptly spread the word that Bob Geldof and co were in town. Neale is the brother of Iwan of Pinhead Recs and became a roadie for Mercenary Skank, he moved to London with the band in the early 80s and still lives in Surrey.
Shore FM – Community based radio station set up by Pete McGuinness as a non-profit project working for the community and ran for two years. Suffered poor programme planning (if any at all), & later on from megalomania by certain board members which brought the station to its knees. Hit the headlines in 1998 for locking horns with Spank FM, a parody of the station conceived by Fairziff of the Blind Lesbian Dwarf notoriety.
Show Girls – Hardcore Rhos-on-Sea punk band (2002), feat; Rob (voc), Johnny (gtr), Stevie Ska (bass), Jay (gtr), Dave (drms).
Shy & The Fight – acoustic folk indie rock band from Llangollen & Chester, England. Feat; Tom Hyndman (voc,gtr) (ex Out of Animals, Scams), Carrie Anderson (violin), Christopher Done (bass), Michael Deponeo (gtr), Tom Wootton (drms), Samuel Williams (drms), Jackson Almond (keys). Rel EP ‘Shy and the Fight’ (2010), and 7″ orange vinyl single All That We See or Seem / Breaks (Popty Ping, 2012) (website)
Shyboy – Wrexham band (80s?), feat; Phil Gilliver (keys), Amos (gtr). More info req’d
Shylock – Rhyl band (1981-83) feat; Rob Armstrong (voc) (see Small Fee), Andy Cessford (self indulgent gtr), Pete Millward (bass) and John Cochran (drms) from Dyserth who moved to Alsager, replaced by Chris Harris from Flint (ex Harvest Moon). Won battle of bands at Marina, Rhyl. ‘Pissed on Frightened By Strangers (sorry Chris Turner).’ Rehearsed at Bodelwyddan Community Centre. Played at loads of local gigs incl Flint Roller Rink, Dixieland and Llandulas Youth Club. Rob left due to image differences, replaced by Andy Ellis (from Flint or Bagillt) who was ‘a great singer with a great image.’ Had track on a comp LP “It’s Unheard Of” (Sane Recs) . Pete says, ‘We recorded the track along with two others at Amazon Studios in Liverpool. Echo & the Bunnymen were there at the time mixing an album they had just recorded in France. It was at a huge cost which was funded by using gig money (which meant me having to cut back on the beer) and by the generosity of roadie, engineer and transport provider John Jackson.’ The band orig had Campbell Finney on voc but he never made it past rehearsals.
Sibrydion – uber-pop band from Waunfawr (formed 2004), feat; Mei Gwynedd, Osian Gwynedd, Fflos, Rhys (ex Anweledig). Rel; Jig Cal (Rasal 2005). Rel 3rd LP (1st in English) ‘Campfire Classics’ (26.1.09) and rec’d national airplay on Radio 1 & 6. (website)
Sick Dastardlys – Holyhead punk band (prev called Glen UK), (formed Dec02), feat; Lee (bass), Mike (gtr), Caleb (voc,gtr), Azz (drms). Played debut gig 10.01.03 at Phoenix, Holyhead. Rec session for Adam Walton (aired 8.5.05) (website)
Sick Fashion – Abergele based alt-rock band (2001) feat; Tom, Nick, Doug & Martin. Have 3 tracks on the MASE ‘No Boundaries’ CD – Slipping Out of Gear, Sick, Hazy. More info req’d.
Side Effects – Wrexham punk band from the early 80’s fronted by Janie. More info req’d.
Siencyn Trempyn – band from Aberystwyth (1985) – won a competition on Welsh TV programme Bilidowca & were featured on the 7″ compilation EP Popdri. A session on Radio Cymru followed & a 7″ single on their own Trythyllwch label. Bobs Pritchard left to become Byd Afiach leaving Emo (trumpet) and the other 2 members to become Arfer Anfad. Emo (Emyr Williams) now runs Ankst music)
Sight Unseen – Prestatyn/Mold metal band (c2006), feat; Sam (voc), Yank (gtr), Carl (bass), Jay (gtr), 13 (drms)
Sigmoidoscopy – Rhyl band (1993) feat; Dave The Rave Jones (bass) (also of Psychosexual Sex Terrestrials, GMX Stuns, Fluff, Agent 1475), Tommy Lee (voc) (also of Psychosexual Sex Terrestrials), Leigh Maxwell (drms) (later Spaced Monkeys, Cacamwki) & Stuart Maxwell (gtr) (also of The Fluff). Rel 4 track demo ‘Blue Gherkin’. Tommy in 2015 performs solo as Tom Goodall (listen)
Silent Spring – Mold indie-rock band (formed Jun04), feat; Dean Elliott (bass,voc), Dan Perry (gtr), Danny Jones (drms). (website)
A Silly Tree – project in Bangor (c1980) feat; Gary Stubbs (later Cut Tunes), where Gary’s interest in repetitive rhythm-based music first came to the fore. Indeed, one of the staples of early Cut Tunes sets, ‘Still a Problem’ had also been a regular fixture of early A Silly Tree gigs.
Silver/Back/Club – Deeside band (formed 2011 as My Pet Rhino), feat; David Thomas (voc,gtr), Adam Hughes (bass) (also I Am Austin), Tom Williams (drms) (also Wolves), Gareth Jones (keys,b.voc), (also Secateurs, ex Stokoz To Moscow). Played debut gig at Connah’s Quay Naval Club. Digital rel Apr12 (physical rel pending), rec and prod by Marc Joy at Aerial Studios Wrexham. Adam, Dave and Gareth were in Bystander and We Shiver. (facebook)
Silverstone – Prestatyn band (early 90s). More info req’d.
The Simon Bakers – Rhyl band (formed May05) feat; Kneejerk members, Ollie (gtr), Andy Treadear (voc). More info req’d
Sister Ray – new name for No Star before they became Horror James.
Six Year Hangover – emo punk band from Colwyn Bay, (2002) feat; Stuart Jones (gtr,voc), Bobby Wynne (gtr) (later Capguns 4 Arcades), Johnny Williams (bass) (sadly died 2006), Marc Kirwan (drms) (later Capguns 4 Arcades). Involved with Drunk Munkey recs. Split 2005 (pic)
Skabbz – Betws-y-Coed punk band (c1993), feat; Scott Jones (gtr) (later Serain), Big Rich (voc) (later of Melys), Dylan (drms), Alun (bass), & Ned (gtr). Played on the Smash Apathy tour, & played over the UK incl London where Big Rich told an RCA A&R man to ‘fuck-off’, this as you can imagine did not help their chances of getting signed up. Famous for their T-shirts – Smash Apathy, Bollox, Smash Everything. Rel demo ‘I Don’t Wanna Be a Rock’n’Roll Star’ (1994).
Skandilisers – Mold/Chester based ska band feat; Pete Griffin (drms) now of Real Crazy Apartment.
Skellies – semi-legendary gang based in Denbigh in the 1970s. The name rather than the gang was feared, proper name was White Skellingtons.
Skin – Vocalist aka Christopher Clack from Shrewsbury with psychopathic tendencies for Rhyl’s No Answer, c1984.
Skin Deep – band from Rhyl (mid70s), feat; Dave Tattum (voc), Dave Blackie (gtr), Ian Cramer (bass), Poppin` Patick Cramer [keys] and a sax player [?] and as Tattum explains, ‘Some lad on drums, I can’t remember his name, he was shite anyway.’ Steve Williams (drms) joined briefly and left after an audition with Budgie. When Andy Hamer [drms] and Delwyn Williams [gtr] (both ex Smokestack, Inkerman) joined them in late `76, bringing with them some much needed confidence and experience. The sax player left as they arrived. Practised and played most of their gigs in the Shoemaker in Rhyl [owned by Ian & Patrick`s father – Ted Cramer]. Tattum left soon after Andy and Delwyn arrived and was replaced by Tom Ball. Rec 2 songs at Countdown Studios, Manchester. Name was first changed to Ted and then changed to Bill the Murderer. Delwyn left and formed Red Wine. Dave Tattum returned for a short stint before leaving once again to join Angelwitch and Andy Hamer later left to join Howlin Wilf and the Broken Fingers, Misery Brothers.
Skink – Bangor rock-pop band (1998-99), feat; Duncan Black (gtr) (ex Mucus, now Papa Lazaroo), Danno (Daniel Alexzander) (gtr) (now Fubar), Ragz (Gareth Horne) (gtr) (now Fubar, ex Killing Bagpuss), Spaggz (Leon Craggs) (bass) (now Fubar, ex Killing Bagpuss & Vinegar) & Aussie – Dannielle Norman (voc). Played mainly in Bangor.
Skinflick – (pic) Bangor based duo/collective (1993-present) bordering on the 70 Gwen Party style of obscurity. orig feat; WJ Hate (Justin Williams) (voc,prog), JA Skin (gtr,prog). Line up (2000-05) Justin & Duncan Black (gtr) (also of Papa Lazaroo), Tabitha (bass), Steve H (drms). After Mar05 Justin & Steve were joined by Mark Watson-Jones (bass) & Jen Younger (voc). Orig called Skinflick Productions & feat Andy Brady (voc) (ex Plastic) at some point. Rel ltd edition (500 copies) EP Pretty Dead Girl which was the 1st of numerous releases (see website for full list). Also remixes other groups eg Vaffan Coulo, Norway’s Herb Mullin, Morbid Symphony, Intra-Venus & Charged. Band have enjoyed European success & have joined with SpongeBrain to produce College Girl Project. Jun01 saw them feat on Radio 1’s ‘Session Exposure.’ Live band toured Nov02. Mini-LP Halo Of Flies (2004), EP ‘Fear of The Dogs’ (Dead Sexy May05). Re-issued ‘Halo of Flies/The Maggot Circle’ on their 10th anniversary (15.12.15). Justin was also in Nexxus Empire (2014-15) (website) (very early live track) (discography)
Skinny Limbs – Bangor noise outfit (c2011), feat; Dave McCann (bass,voc) (also of Whales, Micrographia), Ash Hammond (drms) (ex Capguns), Dan Jones (gtr) (ex Bastions)
Zoe Skoulding – artist and vocalist of Non-Stop Parking, has also feat on Adam Walton’s BBC Radio Wales Show as a ‘resident poet’ (2009), accompanied by Alan Holmes (Ectogram, Fflaps etc)
Simon & The Witch – side project by Gwildor‘s Andrew (c2010)
Slacyr – Conwy based label run by Marc McSomething. Rel LPs by MC Mabon, Texas Radio Band and singles by Gintis and Oscillation.
Slated Dragon – band from Flint area (formed May08 as Slated), feat; Fred Hughes (voc), Chris Harris (drms), PJ (gtr) (ex-Metabbalism, We Are 0151, Perfect10), Vaughan Williams (bass) (ex-Goodfellas – also of The Rain). Fred has been fronting bands since 1988, incl; Dizzy Mama, Airplance, No Vacancy, Vinegar Stroke, Un4given, Raw, Natural Born Swillers Band eventually named ‘Slated Dragon’. 2009 – Chris Harris replaced by Simon Thomas (ex Metabbalism, Goodfellas).
Slater – band formed 1998 after Vaffan Coulo split, feat; Trifle, Mike, Kerz & keyboard player Tom Kinkaid. Had interest off a London based Ferrari Recs & rec demos for them down there but nothing came of it & after around 10 gigs they split. Tom moved to London to do session work. Kerz based in L’pool doing Press stuff for the Relatives.
Sleazy Wednesday – Prestatyn band (c2011). Played Vegas Bar, Rhyl (20.1.11). (website) More info req’d
Sleep Beggar – dark hip-hop project by Holyhead’s Jamie Burne (Bastions, Portrait Of A Lifetime). Rel CD single Fertile Ground (2013) in a sandpaper sleeve! Then CD EP ‘Me Leaving Me’ (2015) and a ltd edition Cassette EP ‘Mary Fields’ (on Smithsfoodgroup 2015) Followed by a split 7″ EP ‘Too Dead To Die’ with New Jersey based JE Double F (on Venn Recs) and spent a month touring USA (Sep/Oct15). Full length album ‘Depression Tactics’ (on American Scream) rel Aug16
Sleepeaters – Flint and Ewole band Paul (gtr) and Andy (bass) (later Relatives), Simon Fry (voc), (ex Vigilante) and Ross Greenslade (drms), (later Relatives, Flaccid)
Sleeping Dogs – 10 part off the wall series on BBC Choice TV (Apr2000) produced by Tom Law & feat the Mikey J Appreciation Society documentary. 2nd series aired Autumn 2000.
Sleepless Dream – Llandudno goth band (1985), feat; (we think) Simon & James Baguley. (see also The Dark, Fetish Fay). More info req’d.
Slide – Colwyn Bay band (early 90s), feat; Chris Yates, Naldo Algeiri, Chris Bainbridge (all later in Supermania), Spencer Pixton & Martin Roberts. Played in Cayley Arms, Rhos. (see also Pocket Venus, Sympathy Jones)
Slightly Generic – punk band from Deeside (formed 2007), feat; Shaun Carr (voc,gtr), Dave Parry (bass), Ian Farr (drms) (website)
Slight Return – rock (mainly covers) band (from Rhyl?) c2010. Feat; Hefz (voc,bass), Rico (gtr), Perry (drms) (website)
SlipStream – orig name for Your Ancestors. Deeside c2006
Slouch – Abergele band (1996), feat: James Goldingay (gtr,voc) (formerly of Jude The Obscure), Chris (bass,voc), Giles (gtr), Steve Hughes (drms) (later of GMX Stuns). Performed a lot of Supergrass and Oasis covers and played around Llandudno plus Taylors (C.Bay) and a few London gigs (Mean Fiddler). See also Stale Elvis.
Smack Rats – Wrexham / Oswestry punk band (formed 2003), feat; Smila (voc), Jonny (voc), Ding (gtr), Gaz (gtr), Dave (bass), Daz (drms). Rel EP ‘In The Ear’ (website)
Mr & Mrs Small Fee – video editors & camera toting couple (c1995), Rob & Julie Armstrong of Prestatyn. Responsible for GMX Stuns‘ Anarchy in the UK video & Sons of Selina‘s Of The First Water (shown in VH1). Named Small Fee because they only charge a small fee. Rob was vocalist for Shylock
Small Gods – name that lasted 3 months before this Anglesey band changed it to Verm.
Small Town Heroes – band from Rhyl (formed 2016), feat; Jared Moore (voc), Connor Thomas (gtr), Heather Clarke (bass), Adam Bevins (drms). Orig called Secret Crowds
Smash Apathy – campaign in the mid-90s led by GMX Stuns & Meringue to awaken North Wales to the fact that the scene was dying through apathy. Widespread media coverage & countless gigs ensued. (website).
Smile – Anglesey-based band (95 -97), who were always a good night at the Vic or the Crypt in Bangor. Sounding somewhere between a Cabaret act with borrowings from Floyd & the Levellers(!). Feat; Marcus (now in Valleum) (gtr), Barry (now a professional actor) (voc), Andy (ex-Valleum – now in Henry & the Sailors) (bass), Phil Kerbab (now living in Manc.) (gtr), Neil (drms), Scott (cheesy boy that got sacked for being cheesy) (keys). After gaining quite a large following, everything went a bit wrong when, upon Barry leaving to achieve acting stardom, no-one could agree on a new singer. Marcus & Andy left to form Milkwood, the first incarnation of Valleum, whilst Phil & Neil did some more music locally before leaving for Manchester; Scott remains a recluse having been stalked by a Japanese ex-girlfriend.
Smiths – Band from Bangor area (c1983), feat; Paul Fletcher (voc,gtr), Jo Laxton (keys). Had track Isms feat on local comp tape ‘Just When You Thought We Were Dead’
Smokestack – formed in Llandudno late 60`s / early 70`s when 2 local groups merged. Feat; Mike Griffith [voc], Jimmy Heath [gtr], John Pritchard [bass], Pete Griffith [drms] and Alan Barrat [voc,gtr]. Andy Hamer took over drum duties [`70 or `71 ]. Jimmy left in `72 and Tommy Hughes [keys] joined. Tommy introduced Delwyn Williams [gtr] and the classic line-up was complete. Lauded N.Wales` top group thanks to their musicianship, driving rhythm section and wonderful harmony vocals. Fondly remembered after playing all over N.Wales, particularly at Oasis Club in Llanddulas where they played many two night stints. Mike and Alan left in `74 and vocal duties were taken up by Cliff Marshall [anyone remember the silver Maltese Cross guitar??] from Holywell [this was very handy as Mike`s suit fitted him perfectly]. Andy left in late `74 / early `75. He was replaced by a Geordie [Bob] who lived in Anglesey [great lad . Cliff and Delwyn left in late `75 to team up with Andy Hamer and Martin “Hair” to form Inkerman. Mike, Alan and Delwyn later went on to form Red Wine. Word is that Smokestack are soon to reform for occasional gigs. Mike and Tommy formed Midas. John joined Tardis and Alan pursued a career in local politics.
Smokin Shark Multimedia – set up by Tim Higgins (ex-Elephants Home), 1998, as a studio, Caernarfon based record label collective. Feat bands Pep Le Pew, Wild Mornings, Spoonidols, Malarki. (website)
Smoking Spiderwebs – band (2003) from Bryhyfryd School, Ruthin. More info req’d.
Smokin’ Tequila – trashed out punk band from Oswestry, feat; Jason Williams (drms) (now Orient Machine), Ben Mulhall and Darren Pallatina. Used to tear up the countryside with Smack Rats, each sharing the headline slots until theysplit around 2007. Jason says, ‘It wasn’t particularly innovative, but was shit loads of fun! I do miss the punk gigs, the blurry drunkenness. It’s all a lot more serious these days! Especially now I have to share the driving.’ (hear demo)
Smokin’ Troll – label based in Bontnewydd, Caernarfon run by Pete in the early 90s who was a ‘sound chap’ who put out loads of punk tapes and maybe a few vinyls. More info req’d.
Smooth, Chris – one time drummer with early 80s Prestatyn punk band The Vaj. Moved to Manchester & eventually started started ‘Revenge’ with New Order’s Peter Hook. Read biog
Smooth Roscoe & The Goo – Bala / Abergele rock covers band (formed 1999), feat; David Edwards (gtr,voc), Deian Rhys Pritchard Jones (bass), Dewi Thomas (drms), Gareth Thomas (gtr) (Dewi’s brother who joined later).
Snakebite – Trefriw / Llanrwst indie/punk band, late 80’s, featuring Skeyn (bass,voc), Mark (gtr), Ed (drms), supported Blacklisted in Penmaenmawr Youth Club. More info req’d.
Rob Snapshot – real name, Rob Allen, official camera man for the Psychosexual Sex Terrestrials, visually documenting with video or photo almost every move the band made in 91/92. Formed a band Fantastic & played in the Surfin’ Birds. Later percussionist with Grasshopper / Hooper. Then involved with Jan06 project The Premonitions
Snatch – (pic) Abersoch band, feat; Daniel Jody Williams (b.6.11.82) (voc,bass), his brother – Dominic Sebastian Williams (b.19.5.81) (drms), Tom Fox (gtr). Formed Apr02 and have rel a Live 6 track EP.The most important gig to date was playing after “Reef” at Wakestock 2002 in front of 4000 people. Currently in the process of writing new material but still gigging. Former members of Headland. Dec02, Steven Adams (drms) joined & Dom moved to guitar. (website)
Snelltones – Bethesda based outfit (pre-1992). More info req’d.
Sniffer – orig name for Menai Bridge band Hole In The Sky (were also called Violated 2004-06)
Snog – Gwynedd based fanzine (2002) (Snowdonia Nites Out Gazette), based mainly around listings, reviews, cartoons etc. Into its 6th edition (Aug02) (website)
Snowblind – 5-piece band from Colwyn Bay (formed Jul01), feat; Owen ‘Ogz’ Ireland (keys), Jimmy Manley (gtr,voc), Mark Wegner (gtr,voc), (all ex Orpheus), Bill Hughes (bass,voc), Ryan Salusbury-Jones (drms) (who replaced orig drummer Enoch Mziray). Played debut at MASE in Oct 2001 & in their words: ‘we try to be as intense as possible whilst remaining melodic,’ which is pretty near to the mark (website). Changed name to Nineteen-Eighty Four (Aug02) then back to Snowblind (Oct04), when Owen & Bill left the band & Dave Harding-Smith (bass) (ex Casino) joined.